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EP-24: Christie Kittle - Transitioning From Teacher to Instructional Designer

Today’s episode is for all of you teachers out there. It’s no surprise that more and more teachers are looking to transition into the instructional design field and I was trying to think of who to bring on the show to talk about how they made this transition. And then sure enough, I found the perfect person. Joining us today is Christie Kittle. She’s a Supervisor & Lead Instructional Designer at Washington State University and she’s a former teacher. Christie breaks down all the steps she took to transition from one role to another. She has an absolutely awesome story and if you’re a teacher, this is the episode you need to listen to.

What we discussed:

  • Where her passion for teaching came from

  • How she heard about instructional design

  • What steps she took to transition from teacher to instructional designer

    • Vocabulary

    • Connections

    • Andragogy

    • Trials for Authoring Tools

  • The shocking number of roles in the instructional design industry

  • Explaining the instructional design role to SMEs

  • Going back to school for a Masters in Instructional Design

  • How to find the right degree for you

  • Why she chose higher education as a career

  • Transitioning from instructional design to leadership

  • What IDs should focus on in the future

Connect with Christie:

Lecture Breakers:

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Transcript

Luke Hobson  00:03

Hey folks, and welcome on into another episode. My name is Dr. Luke Hobson. I'm an instructional designer for MIT and the founder of instructional design Institute. My purpose is to help you make the online learning experience come alive for you and for your students. Today's episode is for all of you teachers out there, it's no surprise that more and more teachers are looking to transition into the instructional design field. And I was trying to think of who do I bring on the show to talk about how they made this transition. And then sure enough, I found the perfect person. Joining us today is Christy kittel. She's a supervisor and lead instructional designer at Washington State University. And she's a former teacher, Christy breaks down all the steps that she took to transition from one role to another, she has an absolutely awesome story. And if you're a teacher, this is the episode you need to listen to. Before I go any further into today's show, I want to give a shout out to instructional design Institute. If you are looking to take your instructional design skills to the next level, the institute is for you, whether you're looking to learn about how to build a network on LinkedIn, applying learning strategies to your courses, or even how design podcast for courses. The Institute has got you covered man. Of course, there are other learning nerds like yourself in there as well. And then I'll be there to help you every step of the way. So go into the show notes to sign up for your free trial today. All right, I won't take up any more time. Here is the one and only Christie kettle. Christy. Welcome to the podcast. Hello, thanks

Christie Kittle  01:41

for having me. Of course, thank

Luke Hobson  01:42

you so much for being here. I am super excited. And I can't wait to nerd out and to go into everything about your story and background, you have an awesome story to tell. So I can't wait to hear all about it. But before we go any further, can you please introduce yourself to the folks at home? Tell us a little bit more about who you are what it is that you do?

Christie Kittle  02:01

Absolutely, my name is Christie, that was a really positive opening. I hope I don't fall flat. So I'll start off by saying according to the predictive index, I'm a risk taking socially poised and motivating team builder. I like more to describe myself as highly curious and having a love for learning. So I got my start. As a K 12. Teacher, I taught middle school math for about eight years before joining the instructional design world. So my love in professional world really is problem solving. Helping others as we'll talk about later, particularly helping other instructional designers grow and bloom, I have a very weird addiction to process improvement and be efficient, while at the same time humanizing things. And making people have that sense of belonging and seeing where their places and how they contribute to the organization's success. Instead of being in their own little silo. In my personal life, I enjoy spending time with my family reading being outdoors, we just bought a travel trailer for adventures that's new. It snowed today, here where I am in the state of Washington, Eastern Washington, but we're excited as spring goes to kind of enjoy that. I was actually born and raised in Texas, which actually will feed very interestingly in my experience as a K 12. Teacher, because they don't follow Common Core. So for teachers that are listening that you know, have common core everywhere, that'll be a little different. But I relocated here to the state of Washington in 2015. And so that that's me in a nutshell, high level.

Luke Hobson  03:45

Awesome. So I have to ask about one thing too, because I saw your website which is a beautiful website, by the way. But I saw that we had two things in common that I thought I was the only weird person that likes both of these. So super excited to see what you saw that is that you enjoy both weightlifting and baking. Yes, I'm the same way.

Christie Kittle  04:04

Absolutely.

Luke Hobson  04:06

So So tell me more what is either your favorite thing that you have ever baked which I did not prep you for by the way was throwing out a random thing at you. Or tell me about one of your favorite workouts.

Christie Kittle  04:16

Oh favorite. Both of those are hard. Well, I started I was I went crazy and like I'm gonna start this fitness journey. You know, and I started working out and then all of a sudden one day I'm like, I should try CrossFit. And and I jumped in headfirst and I have just loved it ever since the high end. The high intensity the team building. Favorite workout, you know, I have built up cardio, but I am. I am not a stamina person. When I grew up in sports, it was like tennis volleyball, it was short bursts of stuff. I like lifting heavy, so I'm taller than most of my friends in CrossFit. So they'll usually put my butt in The fast paced running workouts and then when I get to lift heavy, I get to flip the switch for that one. So honestly, anything that involves a barbell I think would be including my favorite. And unless it's a snatch, that part kind of depends on. So I'm baking man, I'm not prepared for that. I love chocolate. I like baking with my kids now, because I'd like to do the simple stuff, that for them, it's just all fun and sweet, but whipping it up. I don't know, I really like trying new stuff I like like adding things and changing recipes and playing with things and not doing the same thing over and over again, because I get bored too easily. Our late favorite is a chocolate, banana bread that really turns into like a banana chocolate cake. But I use like protein powder instead of all cocoa. And then I can pretend like there's a little bit of healthiness into it. If I think that if I think the more favorite baking item I'll I'll throw in there.

Luke Hobson  06:05

I asked to because of the fact that so much like you almost like I want to make it healthier. But then as soon as you start to get into baking, I was like you know, I forget about it. I go pretty strict with my regimens and what I do most of the days the week, so I'm gonna actually just go all out my goodness, I'm just gonna go all in. And the other day, I made this chocolate peanut butter cup like explosion. So as a chocolate cookie, but in the middle, I stuffed a peanut butter cup. And then Reese's Pieces. Oh, so like you broke it in half. And it's

Christie Kittle  06:37

worth that fully.

Luke Hobson  06:38

Oh, yeah, it was incredible. God only knows how many calories are inside of one of those things. Because I you know, just going all in, but I've been requested to stop begging so much, because I'm going to just make all my family gain a lot of weight so that

Christie Kittle  06:52

I don't have any family nearby. It's just me and my immediate family because the person but now that we're not in the office with the pandemic, right, I can't bake all my stuff and then just bring it to the office. Right? Exactly. We are forced to eat it. We have to we have to deal with that. I will be honest, on some stressful weeks, I have baked like cookies, and I put like nuts in them. And I'm the only one my family that like oh, oh no, nobody likes these cookies with the pecans in it. Oh my goodness, I guess I'm gonna have to eat.

Luke Hobson  07:28

Oh, no, not that anything but that. That's awesome. Alright, so I'm sorry, I didn't put a super off track. But I was like, wait a minute, someone else likes weightlifting and baking like nada. Now that's, I can't bypass this opportunity. Talk about this. So you touched upon this a little bit. But take me back. Because why I really was so excited to have you on this podcast episode is that the other day, I posted a blog, we talked about teachers transitioning into instructional design. Because if I had to guess like the number one population is who I'm talking to about this, you know, instructional design role that people are now starting to learn about even though it's been around for forever and ever. But by far its teachers were than anyone else. So when I put out that blog post, and you commented on it being like, Hey, I made this transition. It was like, say, hey, Christy, you want to come talk about this? Because like I want to hear more real life examples so that other people can see real people and what it is that they did and kind of you know how they got there. So take me back. What made you originally want to become a teacher?

Christie Kittle  08:32

Well, it started with overhead projectors. Let's be honest, growing up, I had a glass top dresser. And I used visa V's all over that thing to pretend teach. And it was I mean, you know, it's it starts with a small weird thing that you like, right? I was super engaging and like active I loved, you know, talking to people. And so honestly, it started with something that simple. I just loved writing on overhead projectors, which is funny because by the time I got the student teaching, one person that I knew use overhead projectors, but nobody, nobody else did at that point. And then Honestly, I went to college not wanting to be a teacher, I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. I had a really big interest in the medical field. And then I think this is not surprising because I think a lot of people go through this. I'm like, I just really don't want to be in school that long. I don't know if that's where my interests are. And so once I realized that career path wasn't for me, I kind of defaulted back to the thing that I wanted to kind of be my whole life which is teaching so I ended up going to while I went to like three different schools, I kind of transferred changed my majors a bunch of times and once I finally settled I went to a bachelor's program that that was originally a teacher's education, college. And so like that's where I want to go and so I did that and I loved the teaching learning and I loved guiding people through stuff. I thought it would be fun, I obviously had no idea of the intricacies of learning how to teach someone, right, or really learning how to guide someone through learning, right? The teaching. I, when I started, I actually did a stint also in the College of Education at the University. I'm at now to help pre service teachers learn how to teach. And a lot of people come in with preconceptions of I'm going to stand at a whiteboard and tell you how math, you know. And I call that now tutor teaching. So like, Okay, well, that's not what teaching is like, but at the time, you know, I had no idea, I was really glad I went that route. But it started from a small passion of helping others and these of these, and I have a strong passion for school supplies. And that helped feed, feed that career career path. Honestly,

Luke Hobson  10:59

everything that you said certainly resonates with me too, because I was so shocked to hear about how much of just learning science and research is really behind education, where when I was a kid and going to school and watching teachers, I was like, Yeah, I could probably do that. But like, you know, I don't, I don't want to go down that road. And now as someone who is trying to help, and you know, and talk to other teachers, I'm like, my gosh, your job is so hard. Like, like, this is something that clearly people do not appreciate enough until it's like almost like wish we could just like swap roles for a day with different people. And so like, Hey, how about you go to the front of a class, you try to gain the attention of all these 30 young human beings and also try to teach them at the same time? Like, it's not

Christie Kittle  11:41

easy? Not to mention grading everything?

Luke Hobson  11:44

Oh, of course, did that just go into anything else that you do on the back end, the planning and everything else? So then how did you get into instructional design? Then? Were you introduced to it at any point during teaching? or How did you hear about it

Christie Kittle  11:57

almost pure happenstance to tag on to that last comment you made? I start I became like the officially unofficial Instructional Technology Specialist at my, my junior high. I just I had the passion for the technology, and integrating into teaching and did the, you know, did the research of what works and that type of thing. Of course, I know, people are not going to be surprised that I became a glorified tech support at first, right? That's, that's how you hook them. Right? And then I finally was able to work with folks, with other instructors and how to engage learners make it more efficient for them. Because that was a really big thing of I don't have more time to learn a new technology. Well, what if I told you this technology that you could implement will actually save you time overall, and helping individualize learning experiences? And they're like, Look, you know, it's kind of like this. And so, the, I started to think about that, and when I engaged more and more with that, I realized, I really like this a lot, working with other teachers, other adults, right, if you t depending on what grade level you teach, it's it's a, you know, middle school is hormonal. It's a much different world, working a lot with adults versus, you know, the children, whatever age they may be. And so once I realized that it was kind of by pure happenstance, my colleague across the hall, her daughter was an instructional designer, and we kind of became friends and we're chatting. And as I was going through this, she goes, thank you, I think you would make a really good instructional designer. And at the time, I absolutely had no idea of this world, this world did not exist to me. I was like, wait, people do this. Because one of the things that was a frustration was all my time is grading, and delivering and engaging with Pete with the students. And I started to find a little bit more joy in developing have the content doing needs analysis, like, why why do they need this? What does this connect with scaffold that, you know, that type of thing. And so that just kind of lead into some conversations with my colleagues, daughter, and it was like, oh, man, this is this is, you know, cue the Google searches. This is a thing. And so that's how I found out about it. Again, I think by pure happenstance,

Luke Hobson  14:17

I was also absolutely shocked to hear but this is the thing to think the fact that someone is able to design education like this way and the back end and how to do all this planning and figuring out from the outcomes objectives, what types of activities actually fit into everything. I was like, I miss asked to be the coolest thing ever. And I was always wondering, I was like, Well, how do I actually become this instructional designer because I kept on connecting and networking for people just trying to see with all these coffee chats would eventually pay off down the road and and it has years later I've networking with these different people. But at first I couldn't do it. Like I could not get someone to actually either a interview me or be when if I get an interview. They're like, no, it's not for you. It's not the right time. So I know that many people are facing the same type of challenge where they're there, but they're not. So it's like this issue of trying to be able to showcase your value and your skill set, because teaching and instructional design certainly go hand in hand for many things. So what steps did you take after this to actually try to use incorporate your teaching background and make it more appealing to hiring managers, and I'm not sure if you're, if you've like, I've literally no idea what you did for resume portfolio CV, I don't have a clue of what you did. So I am all ears of what steps you took.

Christie Kittle  15:35

First and foremost, I was lucky enough to have my colleagues daughter, and I was able to get her feedback and insight of, of that type of world. The first thing I noticed was the vocabulary. k 12. and higher ed have very specific vernacular that is kind of off putting to hiring managers, and organizations in corporate. And so my, the first thing we noticed was, we were talking about new the same things that the I, the instructional designer and me as a teacher, but we just call them different things. So part of it was doing those Google searches, learning about instructional design and the process that you would go through and making those alignments of what I already do both in my so for a lot of teachers just in your classroom, you know, a lot of those alignments of objectives, that type of thing assessment. And then for me, I had the added a positive component of being that instructional technologist specialists because I was also able to help other adults, right. So I was kind of missing the andragogy piece, the adult learning theory. And so for me specifically, I did a lot of just google searches and professional development as much as I could. I did trial trials for authoring tools. I had fallen upon Adobe Captivate, and found out that my school district had some software licenses, I don't know who actually used it, it sounds like the district was because I was a very large district kind of sounded like they're like, this could be cool and purchase a license, I had it sitting around, like all use it. So I was able to make some mini modules that helped me build a portfolio because that was one of the big things that I was in my reading and through another designer is portfolio, right? They kind of want you to come in with either experience, or education or both. And the experience, they want a portfolio. Okay, well, I mean, what am I gonna do send them my seventh grade math lesson plan, you know, that's not going to work. So I did trials, built those mini modules played around with it. Lastly, and all of this is that I know you're gonna ask about it before I actually got my masters and signed up for a master's program. I signed up for a TD at the time, it was a STD. And so I became actively engaged there. I was in Houston at the time, I was involved with the young professionals, which was fun, because we usually met at like breweries or other places. And so we got to hang out. I learned about a lot of different roles in the industry, different organizations, introduced myself to a lot of people before eventually making that decision of, I want to get a Masters in this as well. 

Luke Hobson  18:24

Hey, networking, shocking. It's like a works. What a weird thing to talk to other human beings and ask them more about stuff. No, that's awesome. And I love to the fact that you also mentioned specifically about trials, because I know that I keep on seeing people post about this on Facebook and LinkedIn, where they like, they almost skip that, or they're like, I'm not sure if this $495 license is worth it. Should I buy it? And I'm like, wait, why? Hold on? Like, why don't? Why don't you use the free trial first see, to watch a couple of videos, see if it's right for you before spending all this money on just one tool. When an instructional design land, we use like a million different tools. And you have no idea to what tools the organizations might potentially be using. Because it could be different than higher Ed's different compared to blah, blah, blah. So how did you figure out which tools that you were going to use beyond just captivate or do you just use captivate because it was readily available, so you just rolled with that one.

Christie Kittle  19:18

So what I really focused on because of the transition, I tried to focus more on how I learned the technology and what I built. So in my resume, it was less about the tool itself, unless it was Adobe Captivate, because I think captivate was enough to capture the attention of Oh, they Okay, they know an industry tool, and try to focus more on the products that I built. captivate was chosen just because I found out my district had a license for it and I was able to dig in more than just a trial. So that kind of is how that one fell on my plate and I I don't remember much about articulate at all. So that was back in 2014 13. Don't remember. So I don't I don't even know if I remember articulate very much at all at that stage Camtasia was another one. And so again, it was kind of like, I don't have a lot of money to throw around, like you mentioned all these expensive licenses. So I did trials for a few of them. And the one that I was able to long term build, that's the one I stuck with just at least. So I could build something and say that I have some experience that 

Luke Hobson  20:24

totally makes a ton of sense. And that's what I've told some people to is, if you think of any of the popular and learning management systems, right now, they all have a free trial, if you can showcase any of your work on there. And sure enough, if you use one, you can pretty much figure out any of them, like, oh, the interfaces are close enough. And if you can't figure it out, there's a magical thing called YouTube, that you can just search and give you a walkthrough. So it's like, just just do that. And it's another, you know, everything you could add into your portfolio. What surprised you about being a full time instructional designer? I feel like we all have those moments. What got you by surprise,

Christie Kittle  21:01

right? I think the first one was the huge variety of roles across industries within that, like so external training, internal training, so whether it's compliance training, or like HR, management, leadership, training, versus communication, there's so many different types. And, and a lot of the instructional design roles are very specific to one of those that this one's talent, development specific, right. And that surprised me because, again, I had no idea about the world of instructional design at all, yet alone, where they lived. Within that though, the thing that surprised me through networking and looking as the viewpoint of that trading department, at the organization. And what because there are several organizations that felt very strongly about growing their own people. And this internal training was a very important, and some others were seen as what we have to do this compliance stuff, and they probably didn't have a lot of budget and everywhere in between. And within that one of the surprises was especially coming from K 12. We said, Man, teaching is hard. I know, people don't realize how, how hard it is and how involved it is. But you have like, weeks of Teacher Appreciation, and everybody loves you, right? Like, oh, you're you're a teacher. Wonderful. And when I went into instructional design, I guess I didn't expect having to sell myself to sneeze so much, and my purpose and my value. So just like me, I didn't realize that was a thing. So when I would work with a subject matter expert, so what exactly is instructional? What exactly do you do? And who do you work for? Like, where do you fit into this? And so, I don't know. I don't know. I when I look back, I'm like, why was I even surprised about that? But apparently I was. So those are the big things that surprised me are kind of all interrelated.

Luke Hobson  22:59

Oh, absolutely. The amount of conversations I have had describing literally what you just said, Oh, just like what is an ID? Like, what what purpose do you serve here? Like, why do I need to talk to you? And I'm like, Yeah, I know. But listen, like I can really help out. Just give me a chance. And, and that was definitely my most shocking moment was actually like the fluctuation of how much some people were aware about instructional design, where if you talk to them, they would say like, you know, they're on one end of the scale. They're like, totally, I worked at a time instructional designers, I know exactly what it is we do, you know, let's get going like they were ready. Others they would send you have a 700 PowerPoint slide deck and say just become a magical wizard and make this for me, and you're like, So hey, we need to talk. It's not what it is that I do. So I was really shocked at how different those perspectives were.

Christie Kittle  23:52

Yeah, absolutely. I think almost every designer has probably experienced that. Here's my PowerPoint deck. 

Luke Hobson  23:58

always done. Exactly. Well, you're gonna build the class for me. So that's great as Tell me when it's all said and then all this kind of like pop my head in and kind of like maybe give it a check through and we'll see, you know,

Christie Kittle  24:12

pleasant to another surprise of mine is what the designers actually do. Some designer roles I've seen, they are building, they build in captivate, they take the content and make it where it's more receivable by the learner. Whereas some I've seen, they just build like, okay, we've actually created and done things. I just want you to build it in captivate or storyline. And then and also, I think I might talk about this a little later and one of our other questions, but in higher education way I am now I my organization is a service organization. So my role is actually more of a consultant and helping others make decisions, but they own the course and they build the course content. And our job is more consulting. Now. We Still do trainings. And we still create our own stuff. And we're our own subject matter experts, when we help develop faculty with teaching, learning and tools. But when it goes to the actual classes that are seen by students, we are more consultants of how do I help you decide on assessment, decide on assignment, that type of stuff. So the difference in in what you actually do as a designer is also one of those things that kind of shocked me and how the hiring manager explains it to you. is very interesting as well.

Luke Hobson  25:34

Oh, yeah, that's that's always interest those poor people, sometimes, they just don't know. And you're like, I'm so sorry. But let's talk about this. I actually saw a job posting today that was really interesting, because it caught my eye because as you mentioned, instructional designers, we were all hats. And sometimes the organizations are getting better about when they refer to instructional design, they will give you kind of like a hint. As far as where is this more techie? Are you going to be doing something? It's more along the lines of like outcomes and assessment level? Are you doing more like learning experience design? Like they're, they're, they're getting a little bit more granular with things, which is great. But one of them I saw today was just literally like being the UDL expert. Like they were looking for a universal design for learning instructional designer, right now. It's like, oh, like, that's really interesting, because a lot of organizations talk about how they realize now they're like, Oh, my gosh, accessibility is a humongous thing. We need to correct this and you know, all these different things of this nature. But then to actually see if somebody is being proactive and saying, No, we actually want a specialist in this field come and make our courses the best they can possibly be. blew my mind. Like, well, I'm going to share this job posting with like, everyone I know. Who's in the area.

Christie Kittle  26:49

Yeah. And I'm hoping I make UDL experts proud when I say and I've been told by UDL folks, several times. UDL is not accessibility, it can help support it. But the purpose of UDL Universal Design for Learning is that all learners can have access to that content. Yeah, I feel like any UDL experts should kind of raise the roof on that one. But that's where UDL very important. That's an ongoing conversation, where we are, and what role it plays and at the university as a whole, online campus, and all that type of stuff.

Luke Hobson  27:22

So one topic that I would love to go down now is that you already alluded to this you talked about a little bit is how you actually went back to school to go back for your master's in instructional design. And this is another thing that keeps on coming about. And personally, I have mixed feelings, because I know, as academics, we naturally say, I have to go back to school. It's almost like an instinct, it's not even a Hey, is there another option? Am I already qualified? Should I you know, use my connections to try to be able to find something, it's like, that's not even a thought. It's just Oh, go go go get a masters. And it's more of like, it's it all comes to the person, the goal, you know, there's many different things, but you actually went to grad school and just from listening to you talk and tell him about your story. It sounds like it was a very successful effort. So tell me what made you want to go back to school and enroll in a grad program?

Christie Kittle  28:11

Well, one, I like schooling, right? It was just that you're like you mentioned that was that was okay for me, right? I like the YouTubes. The quick things, I think now, my answer might be different. Because I think there's, I think the world has evolved a little bit more to provide some really good instructional design resources and networking that may not have existed or that I didn't know about at the time. But to take myself back to that time, a lot of it was fear that people would only see me as a K 12. Teacher, right and not be able to hack it in the industry. Oh, you know, and depending on how long you've been in education, I've seen it on both sides. Oh, well, they're, you know, in higher ed, oh, they're in corporate, they're not going to like the speed of what we do things that occurred the exact same thing on the other side, too. So there was just an interesting viewpoint from one side looking to the other. And so I wanted to, I wanted to have that piece of paper. And that, like I have a, I have a degree specifically in this. Like you said, when you know, I think I mentioned earlier with the job descriptions, you need x experience or education. And so it's like, well, I'm going to try my best to spend my instructional technology and teaching into it. But if I got a master's degree, I don't have to fight it as much. And so that's kind of the thing that led me to that decision. I also just, I also thought it was really cool. My son got to watch me go to school, they got to watch me, you know, graduate, walk across the stage. It was all virtual because I went I went back to Texas, I ended up graduating when I was here. And so that was cool. So you can see how how hard mama works. But that wasn't The big the big reason, but it was a cool one.

Luke Hobson  30:02

Of course, it's a very special moment that you get to have where now they can actually see you as a a living, breathing, walking testimonial, where you're like, Hey, I went to school as well look what I did. So that's awesome. That's, that's really cool to hear. What was it about that program in particular that made you want to apply to there? Because I know this was also a couple years back. So on average, there's new programs and revise ones and things of that nature. But why that one at the time?

Christie Kittle  30:28

You know, the first and foremost, a lot of the instructional design and technology programs are masters of education. And I was actually deliberately going against that I wanted a master's and science. Part of the reason is trying to break that mold of Oh, look, she got an eye, you know, an ID degree, but she got his master's of education, right. And so there were several programs I was looking at, they were all online. And that's the one I ended up going with. It was actually the same program my my colleagues daughter that I met with, she had a great experience. So right there, I knew someone that was there that went through that and had a good experience. It was rated pretty high. And again, Masters of Science, those are the big reasons why I chose that program in particular.

Luke Hobson  31:19

That seems like a no brainer. Is there any program or I should say other specifics of what if you were going back to school again? Now? Is there specifics of what someone should be looking for in the curriculum?

Christie Kittle  31:31

Ah, I think my biggest suggestion would be variety. Some are focused a little bit more on one type of ICT instructional design. One of the things I noticed about my program I didn't, I didn't notice until I was in there. A lot of my actual instructional design courses were electives, for people doing like a higher ed masters, or something like that. And so they were like, Oh, I'm actually in there were actually a lot in K 12. Taking a instructional design course as an elective. And so kind of looking at the audience and kind of what kind of people enroll, I think one of the most beneficial pieces is connecting with others that are going to be in the industry at the same time as you. The other thing I would look at is the faculty, and what experiences they bring. Is it all adjuncts that are actually designers and doing this on the side? Are they all full time tenured faculty, not saying that the positive or negative but a consideration because they bring different experiences?

Luke Hobson  32:34

both excellent points. I saw one program recently where they had one course that was literally all about working with clients. And I was like, Yay, finally someone's like, hey, working with sneeze. It's a big part of what we do. Yeah. 

Christie Kittle  32:48

Yeah, I wish there was a whole course on that. I can tell you there's a lot of a lot of researching I did when I started working with difficult sneeze.

Luke Hobson  32:58

Seriously. So first one 

Christie Kittle  32:59

I'm going to figure out,

Luke Hobson  33:01

yeah, relationship management is easily like the number one thing that is we have to do. But yes, everything else goes in from learning science, project management, and blah, blah, blah. But relationship management is like the heart and core of how to actually make an effective online course or program. So it always baffles me when someone says like, Hey, I'm thinking about going back to school, you know, I'm going to go into look at this program. What do you think? And I'm looking at it, and this is basically Oh, you're learning 10? different learning theories, Mike. Okay. And what else? Yes. And,

Christie Kittle  33:34

of course, we're learning theory. And that was perfect for me. 

Luke Hobson  33:37

There you go.

Christie Kittle  33:38

There's so much more involved. Yeah. And well, for me personally, especially for those that are transitioning from teacher to ID, learning theory was easy part because I already learned all of that. And I was able to, you know, dig in my brain. I'm like, Okay, I've got this. The biggest thing for me was learning about adults, what do they what's different about what they bring to the table and their motivation for learning? And so that was, that was also very helpful for me as well.

Luke Hobson  34:03

Absolutely, no, when you start going into the adult learning, you mentioned about andragogy, and going into the challenges and their barriers, and all these different things that they faced, which is this difference, so you need to try to, obviously boost that type of topic to be able to learn more about that. So then, how did you go from then the grad program? Were also like telling the story of your life. Have you done all these things, by the way, in chronological order, then tell me, how did you become an ID in higher ed from here? 

Christie Kittle  34:29

So um, I mean, to be frank, I live in a smaller college town, and there's not many opportunities. And so when the instructional designer position came up, I was like, okay, it's a different world. But honestly, let me come back to kind of my roots, right. I mean, I started in education. And that's what I was really passionate about. One of the reasons why I liked this role is because I can kind of play both sides. I can have an indirect impact on student learning, right, and actually focus on those things that I learned, you know, back in my bachelor's, but I was also able to work with adults, I was able to do training, still consult on specific course design. So it kind of gave me the best of both worlds and have that kind of all around experience. The other thing that that was kind of interesting, though, is it took me away from elearning content development. So that was one thing that was a lot more interesting. For people. We're talking about what tools would you learn as an IB? Well, if you're going into higher ed, I mean, that's a completely different answer. Right? So we have I convinced people to get articulate. And so we're working on some things internally for that. But we're not using articulate or Adobe for higher ed courses. We're using it for internal development. But like, yeah, the biggest thing is that it, it was allowed me to get back to education, and then work with adults still.

Luke Hobson  36:01

Yeah, and it is absolutely mind boggling to see the different types of tools that we use for external versus internal, of learning management systems versus, you know, something like rise or things of that nature, that could potentially be a, you know, a quick winning type of a development for that type of a product. So it is fascinating, and I just remembered a question I was gonna ask you about before. So thank you for saying those things. You talked about how your role was, is now more consulting, or things of this nature? Was that always the way that it was before the pandemic? Because I know a lot of people have switched that mindset of like flipping classrooms, how do we do this and things of that nature.

Christie Kittle  36:36

So my specific institution, yes, we've always been a service institution. So if you are familiar with higher ed, many hired institutions have a Center for Teaching and learning, teaching and learning. And it's a centralized unit, we don't have that we are the go to we are the ones that do faculty training, we are the experts in teaching and learning. But in the end, you know, the the content is owned by faculty, and the departments. And our job is to help guide their decisions, what considerations to make. Now, post pandemic, we are still strong consultant, but we had to build a lot more resources to kind of help them every step of the way, I can tell you, because of the pandemic, I think the whole part of selling our worth, and where we go, the pandemic I think, has made some pretty major strides in talking about designers in their role and how they can help faculty on an individual level and departments as well. Yep, you bet.

Luke Hobson  37:43

That's, that's gonna be like that for many years to come. So obviously, a lot of horrible things that come from the pandemic, for the instructional designers out there. At least a lot of people now know what it is that we do and why it's an important, you know, function for everything. Did you when you were in this role, one thing that, you know, even personally I've been thinking about is just like, where to go certain amount of point from five years from now 10 years from now, things of this nature. And I know that you're also in please correct me if I'm wrong. And I hear your supervisor of instructional designers, I think I read online, right? So how did you make the transition from ID to supervisor? And what was the mindset like of like, do I want to actually go down this road?

Christie Kittle  38:27

Right. So first, the kind of the why, or the how I mean, as Yeah, I had a really good relationship with my boss, she identified quite early on that I was a high performer, and that she needed to stay on our toes to keep me, you know, challenged. And because I just I was always ready for more. But I because I actively sought out feedback. And because of her leadership, I was, I was able to be proactive and asking for leadership opportunities. And I like leadership opportunities, although I didn't really consider supervising because I ask self to me kind of early in my career, especially in higher ed. But I took a lot of professional development courses and asking, as my boss's job grew, how can I help you take things off of your plate, right, and so I kind of it kind of naturally transition. So I actually didn't step into a supervisory role. First, I became like a lead designer. So I didn't supervise people, but I helped with the workload and help with some more decision making pieces. And then once we realized that our team was growing more, we were hiring a new designer, went through the whole search process, and then it kind of just made sense. I think we need to start getting a position to supervise the design team add another layer before my boss because as we grew, she didn't have as much time as well to dedicate to that. And so I kind of naturally went in there. So honestly, my mindset. I think I've always known that this is the route I wanted to go because that's what interests me. It kind of ties into the I just help. I love helping other people grow in what they're doing and learn more. And so and you know, officially, I'm a supervisor. But you know, I was pure to all of these folks except for two, beforehand. So that was an interesting relationship building, we just went through our annual review process, the dreaded annual reviews, but I love it, it's, you know, the time to open up and knowing that we're not going to only have that conversation once a year, but that, you know, I tried, I got a really good note from a mentor, is take note of those things that make time fly. So as you're going through your day, as you're going through your job, what are those things that really excites you, and then all of a sudden, you're like, Oh, my gosh, I've spent an hour on this, you know, I thought it was five minutes, make note of those things. Those are the things that really excite you, that can help take that next step for something you love more. And so ended up being a kind of natural transition within my first three years at this institution to kind of just get into that role. Now, subsequently, my boss has actually retired. And so I've actually it's been, it's been very interesting. So I've taken a lot on, on her strategic planning piece, and we're transitioning LMS is, so we're also in the middle of that. So yeah. And so that kind of just seemed like the natural step. For me, it just, it's kind of like one of those things where the stars just seem to align for the needs of the university and that organization and what I can provide, but I also am a very big, you know, people always say things will work out, well, they work out because I work to make them work out, right. I actively say, this is what I like to do and ask, I asked for that feedback, I want to be better. Please be comfortable telling me what I need to do better. Right? So and being able to do that. Very excited, I can feel my heart rate going.

Luke Hobson  41:54

Awesome. This is for this podcast. I don't like quip clip amazing quotes before the show and do the thing. But if I did, it would be your quote talking about how having Time flies. That was phenomenal. I love that so much. I know people can't see us talking. But I was like, Oh, that's amazing. That's an awesome, that's phenomenal. And it clearly you're very passionate about what you do leading people helping others grow. So that's also wonderful to hear too. Because the instructional design world, it's almost like you become such a good instructional designer that your next logical step is then to lead instructional designers. But then like that kind of takes you away from diving into the weeds and actually building out the courses. So it's like a, certainly a more of a transition process of going from one to another because it is a different line of work.

Christie Kittle  42:45

Absolutely. I'm really lucky right now, because the way this is structured, I still have some design on my job description, right now, because I'm helping with having my boss's position empty. I have not doing a lot of design because of that. But I still am in all the meetings with my team to help with trainings and different projects. So I still I'm still kind of close to it. But it is definitely a step that you need to be ready for. Because, again, back to that what makes time fly. If it's building in articulate and Adobe, and doing those things and problem solving those techie stuff, then that's that's your that's your way forward. I mean, that doesn't mean you're never going to get to the point of manager. That's not everybody's role. I know a lot. And this is funny because it comes up and talent development a lot. The natural progression, well, I've been here for X amount of years, and they're really good. So we should make them a manager doesn't mean that they're going to make a good manager, well, maybe they they want more opportunities and more freedom and more leadership opportunities within that position to do those things they love without managing others, right. And so some of that's organizational, some of that's personal. And I can tell you that different organizations have completely different career ladders. Some are Junior regular senior. That's something we're working at. Because at the university I'm at, we don't have layers right now, we kind of just made the lead and seats supervisor for me. But my team has asked me what their next step is, okay, well, what is that next step? Because they're not going to go through the same process, because then we would all be supervisors, right? So working, you know, to try to figure out what that looks like. So they're still engaged, and they feel like they're moving forward.

Luke Hobson  44:36

And the fun challenge for you, I'm sure trying to also now coach these folks is what is instructional design going to look like in a couple years? It could totally change we don't know. We know a few things that are tried true and tested. They'll always be around but our field is constantly evolving and growing. And that's what's also kind of exciting though, that it is

Christie Kittle  44:57

professional development of always staying on your toes. Where are you and of course with the pandemic I have found, absurdly, so that 8 million more people have emailed me about their product that's going to be perfect for the problem that I'm having because of the pandemic. And it's overwhelming. But the same thing with webinars hyflex learning online leadership program, I mean, all of the webinars, that's another challenge that we have either as, you know, if you're a job seeker, trying to learn things to get in the industry, or just keeping up to date, just being inundated with so many things and be able to try to identify what's really, really important to kind of focus and hone in on.

Luke Hobson  45:41

I love it. Let's end it on there. Because I feel like people need to actually do that. That is a huge topic nowadays for research that makes a ton of sense. So Christy, this is awesome. I'm so glad you came on here shared your story and gave us some amazing tips in that incredible quote that I'm gonna do something with, I'm going to put in the show notes or something. I don't know, I'm gonna do something with it. But for the folks at home at where can they go to learn more about you, your work and everything else?

Christie Kittle  46:06

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to engage people with on LinkedIn, feel free to reach out to me, I love helping others especially break into the field. I do have a website, as you'd mentioned, he found out that I love weightlifting and baking. And one of my goals this year is to have a little bit more of an online presence. So hoping to post more on LinkedIn and my website and that type of stuff. But for now, those are the two best ways 

Luke Hobson  46:28

wonderful, and I'll include them in the show notes that way people can find them easily. But hey, Christy, once again. Thanks so much for coming out tonight.

Christie Kittle  46:34

Luke, thank you so much. I have a blast.

Luke Hobson  46:36

One awesome episode. Thank you, Christy, for coming on the show and sharing your story. You can connect with Christie on LinkedIn by using her link in the show notes. And one last bit of news before I let you go, I have been getting more and more questions about conferences lately. Like Which one should I go to which one's the best? Which ones actually worth it? Because there's a lot of conferences out there. So these are all fair questions. And my answer has always been at this conference that is called lecture breakers. And that's by Dr. Barbie honey cuts. And her name sounds familiar. It's because she has a podcast that is called lecture breakers. And actually, I was a guest on her show not too long ago where we talked about my strategies of how I revise online courses, and how I conduct pilot programs for them. And really all the ins and outs of how I do this. And Dr. Barbie Honeycutt is a wonderful friend of mine. So her conference I know has always just been absolutely top notch fantastic. And this year, I am actually presenting at lecture breakers. So this is a live virtual events between June 8 and June 10. That's going to really help you create amazing learning experiences for your students, and give you the opportunity to connect with other educators. And my workshop in particular for this one is going to be all about scenario based learning. If you've been listening to this podcast for any period of time, you know, I love sbl. It's one of my favorite learning strategies. So come nerd out with us over in June, I will teach you everything I know about SPL and how to really make something amazing for your own online learning experiences. To sign up for the entire conference and see all the other fabulous guest speakers too. You can go down into the show notes, click on the link to sign up and then it's going to pop up all the information and the overview that you're looking for. All right, my friends. If you liked today's episode, as always give it a five star rating wherever you listen to podcasts. And until next time, stay nerdy out there and I'll talk to you later.

EP-25: Q&A with an Instructional Designer from MIT

EP-23: Dr. Dawn DiPeri - Public Speaking for Instructional Designers