Get ready for the future! On today's episode, I share 5 ideas on where I think instructional design is moving towards. Some of them have been implemented in the courses I teach, and others in the courses I design. The best part of all is that you can replicate any of these ideas into your courses right now.
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Transcript
SPEAKERS
Luke Hobson
Luke Hobson 00:00
If you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I have specific recommendations for each product and service. Many of you have been saying what you're thinking about transitioning from your current LMS or learning platform to a new one. If you are in the market for a new platform, I'd recommend eduflow. This is the first platform I've used. I feel like instructional designers actually made it. Eduflow focuses on the learning experience. It's simple to build on and they have a fantastic team to support you throughout the entire process. Best of all, this platform can be used for corporate or for higher ed, as are trusted by both Google and Stanford. Go to Eduflow.com today for your free trial and use my promo code DRLUKEHOBSON to save you 10% off of your subscription ambassadors simply spelled DRLUKEHOBSON. If you have any questions at all about the platform, feel free to connect with me. I've actually been building courses on Edu flow, we're going to be coming out soon. So I'm confident that I can help you out for anything else that might pop up. So look up Edu flow and tell him I sent you. And now let's start the show.
Hey, folks, and welcome on in to another episode of the podcast. My name is Dr. Luke Hobson. I'm a senior instructional designer and Program Manager at MIT. I also have a blog, a podcast, a YouTube channel. And my own course is all about instructional design. My purpose is to help you make the online learning experience fantastic for you and for your students. And you can find all my information over at Drlukehobson.com. On today's episode, we are talking all about the future. Of course design, the future of online course design is already here. But you just don't know it yet. We, as designers, we're bombarded by new information daily. And it's tough to decipher what's actually possible. And what's just so far out there that we're nowhere even close. I'm often asked in interviews to be a futurist of sorts, and to project Well, what's the next big thing for instructional design. It's always funny when people mentioned radical ideas, but they didn't think were possible. But I know that they do exist. For instance, I had a meeting with a few educators the other day, and they mentioned trying to scale grading, this is the issue they were trying to solve. And to them, there just weren't enough instructors to do all the grading. And they were laughing and saying like, Oh, if only there was AI that could just magically and accurately grade our papers. And then I looked at them. And I was like, you know, this product does exist, right? And they're looking back at me like I have three heads. They're like, wait, what are you and I was like, Yeah, actually, this, this does really exist. I did indeed test out a product about a year ago or so where AI, we were working with it. And within the AI of this product, we could feed it a ton of papers, we could supply it with a typical feedback and the normal suggestions that an instructor would leave as far as for what grading and even included a rubric as well. And sure enough, after enough papers went through it, and after enough bit of a tweaking process, the AI was able to replicate pretty darn close what the real instructor would have done. And this is the thing, folks is that these ideas exists, I keep having these conversations of, hey, it's really not that far out there. It does exist. But it takes some time. It takes some digging, it takes some research in a vetting process. And then of course, there is the elephant in the room where even if you find the magical thing that's going to help revolutionize your products. Well, we still as a society, and our organizations hate change. So we need to combat this as well. When it comes to change. Trying to change how we have done something for years, such as designing courses is a slow and steady process. And honestly, the results may never come if they're not giving enough time to really try to see them through. This has led to some standards of course design that have become outdated, in my opinion. If you're an instructional designer or have taught online courses before you know what I'm talking about. We have all reviewed or taught a course or taken a course before where you're left with the thoughts of Why are there so many discussion board postings? Why are there 10 learning outcomes that just don't make any sense? Why demographics look straight out of 1997 in these videos, why is this textbook formatted in this way, but super clunky and it just doesn't make sense. And I just hate the layout of everything for this ebook. The thing is, is that we don't have to settle as designers. There are possibilities out there right now. on how to make the course feel more human like, and how to focus more on our students, as someone who is deeply invested into the instructional design community. And I have also taught online for years to I've seen a few new ideas that have worked, I've seen plenty that do not work. But I've seen a few ideas that have worked. And I'm also currently working on some of these ideas that I'm going to be mentioning to you right now in this podcast episode. And while I don't have all the data to supply for you, as far as for backing up what I'm going to be talking about for some of these things that I'm literally implementing right now, I'm confident saying that these ideas are going to become the new norm at some point in time. And that's why I'm trying to do this now, getting ahead of the game, and trying to supply my students with what I think is going to be the optimal learning experience. So get ready for the future, because that's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode, and I'm gonna be laying out for you five topics, five ideas, five concepts, whatever you want to call them, that you can put into your courses, and really make a big difference in 2021. The first idea is designated learner checkins. My big lesson from 2020 is that it's okay to not be okay. I taught online graduate courses all throughout the pandemic, and witnessed the impact of a state of the world had on so many of my students. They wrote in to me about heartache and troubles and they talked about all of their struggles in the discussion board. And they would always reach out to me via email about their situations. And the email would always start off with an apology, which is what absolutely killed me, you don't need to apologize for a life altering event. But always start off with something of I'm sorry, Dr. Hobson, but I won't be able to submit my assignments. Because my mother is in the hospital with COVID. I haven't stopped working in days, everyone keeps on calling out the only person who can handle the shifts. And now I'm literally working at least 80 plus hours a week or the exact flipside, I was just let go of my employer. I'm trying I'm trying to figure this all out, I'm struggling, I can't find a job. I don't know what to do. And whatever the case was, there was never a need to apologize for some form of absolute life altering event. And what I would try to do is I was posting my announcements, and I was sending emails to students saying, Please don't worry, we are in unchartered waters, we are in such weird times, don't worry. But that never really hit home with everyone. It wasn't until I started to use check ins, quote unquote, there, that there were designed into the courses themselves. And I started to notice a bit of a difference. These checking sessions were either video recordings or written submissions, where the students could explain about what they went through for the week. And if they had any questions on the courses content, while many of his students sent check ins this basically saying, hey, everything is fine. And all well and good. I don't have any questions, I did start to notice a trend. And students were opening up more. They talked about their wins, like how one student told me but she accepted a job offer because she was able to use the knowledge that she gained within the first couple of weeks within this MBA course that I was teaching, she was able to go and apply and talk about the skills she learned in her interview. And it got her job. So there were celebratory moments. But then again, they also talked about their struggles. And sometimes it was around the course content, which was great. Obviously, we can talk about those things and support you. But for most times, it was around time management's stress, fear of the unknown. The check ins though, they created this type of a new private communication channel, that was a direct link. To me, these are private that were not out in the opens. And what they did is that these check ins informed me about being able to think of their performance for the next week or so or even longer is that oh, this person is struggling with this major event. I know what they're going to be going through, I know they're going to need more support. And I know to obviously be a decent human being and not just try to grade somebody extremely low because of their performance when obviously, their performance is going to be affected as an instructor. It really does gave me this insight as far as you're figuring out how to support everybody and their individual needs. The only caveat to all of this and for trying to implement this new idea was that I did not realize how long it was going to take me as an instructor to go through and watch every single video and then to reply back to all of them or read every submission or email reply back to all of them. It took quite a bit of Time, I wasn't until I actually found my own rhythm, my own groove, and was able to really put the wheels in motion, but it took quite a bit of time. So if you are planning on doing this, whether you are an instructor or whether you're building a course, as an instructional designer, and you want to use this idea, just FYI, make sure that everyone knows how long this could potentially take. And for me, it could take anywhere between three to four hours or so is probably what it was per check in. And these were at different points of time in the term. So it wasn't every single week. But they were consecutively happening within say like weeks like 1357, you know, things of that nature. The next idea is peer reviewed assignments. Learners care what the instructors think that's one of the main drivers, for course, enrollments is that you want to learn from the best. But what about to learn from each other? for a living, I design online courses for adults, and the more I researched their wants and their needs, and why they signed up for the courses in the first place. The more I hear about a desire to learn from one another. They hold their professors in a high regard, don't get me wrong, but they want to hear from people on their level, and to see what they're doing and how they're implementing the feedback. And what they're learning about as well. They don't necessarily want to work together in a group, though, which has been interesting to try to counter, but they want to learn from one another. So what do you do? What's the solution. And what I found was a solution is a concept known as peer reviewed assignments. The concept of peer reviewed assignments is relatively simple. Let your peers review your work, and then give you a grade and give you feedback. I've used these in my own courses and programs. And learners always find this idea to be mind blowing also, because of how education feels like it's slightly behind compared to the rest of the world. But that's a different story. The point is, is that they love being able to do this. And what I see happen every single time I use this tool is that learners need to use their critical thinking skills, they need to determine how am I going to accurately grade this assignment using a rubric? How am I going to give feedback, that's actually going to be helpful. It lets them have more of an instructor perspective, if you will. But at the same time, they know that this person is right on their level as well. Being able to let learners be in the hot seat be in the driver's seat and get to experience this has been really interesting to see. It's certainly one thing to have constant comments come from an instructor, it's another thing to have your peers who you respect, also going through the same experience at the same time, providing give you feedback. And what I've seen is that it resonates just a little bit more compared to always having feedback from an instructor. One of my favorite cases for peer reviewed assignments is the power of students learning from one another. Something that was incredible to witness was once two students from the same organization, they also worked at different plants. So they've never talked to one another before. But they were in the same class together. Now this is a course that was based all around manufacturing. And they happened to submit their assignments on a problem they were dealing with both at their respective plants. Upon reading each other's assignments, it sparked how to solve a problem they were facing as an organization, not just from an individual level. But as an entire organization. Hey, you're trying to solve this problem? And so am I, what what can we do? And they began to brainstorm, and they actually started to brainstorm in the discussion itself. So it moved from the peer reviewed tool, taken over now to the discussion board. And then this brought in even more of a conversation from other students who were also in the manufacturing industry. And they talked about how they approached a similar problem that they have dealt with, or they gave an hypothetical of how they would approach this problem right now, if it was to actually occur. These students need a place to collaborate. That's really what I'm trying to talk about is that these unfortunately, in these times as more organizations are growing, which is fantastic. That also means that there's a higher chance of isolation, more barriers are popping up more locations are happening, and now we're even working from home. So there needs to be a better way for people to share ideas to work together and to get really feedback and figure out How to learn from one another. And what I've seen so far within my own interactions at MIT and from my own different courses that I teach is that a platform like that can give someone an opportunity to connect. And I guarantee that they're going to use it, and they're going to love it. Now, many learning platforms don't have this functionality, which is a bit of a disappointment, just using discussion boards, it's not the same discussion not to say once again, the discussion boards can't promote collaboration, because for my story, even more discussions came from there. But there had to be a spark, that had to be a kickoff to really have this entire conversation. So that's where I feel like discussion boards are a little bit lacking. Online Courses should have collaborative features. And I know many of you right now you're searching for a better platform to really step up the learning experience. And if you are looking for a new platform, I already gave him a shout out at the beginning of the show. But once again, I would highly recommend as you flow, I've been designing a new course with the folks over at Edu flow. And some of my new courses are going to be on their Edu flow Academy, which is already launched, actually. And it's going to be more courses even launching in the future. And the first thing that I asked about those that when we started to talk about anything, I was asking about the assessments, What can your platform actually do, because in my courses, I need students participating at least 75 to 80% of the time, they need to be involved, they need to take action. And luckily, from working with those folks, they showed me that not only did they have the peer reviewed assignments, which is what I was really looking for. But they also had a built in feature that allowed learners to review their peers work, but then to go back to the original submission, and to incorporate the feedback that they've been able to gather from their peers, and then to alter that original submission. And that's brilliant, because essentially, what we're having them do is collaborate, work together, gain feedback, and then go and make the tweaks for what they really want to be able to submit for what they've just learned about. And of course, this new submission is something that they're going to be proud of. Now, once again, you can check out their website as you flow COMM And I would highly recommend use my discount code, Dr. Luke Hobson all one word, and it will save you an additional 10% off your subscription, if you choose to use their platform. The third idea is x our representation. Alright, this is where we're really starting to kick things off, it's gonna feel a lot more futuristic, if you will, which is probably what you're thinking. But to me, there is a delicate balance between wanting students to have their cameras turned on during courses, but also being human. And just understanding how annoying it really is to be on camera for all hours of the day. I can sympathize because right now my life has been zoom for the last year and change. And if there was ever an opportunity where I don't have to be on camera, I am taking it. So I tell my students the same thing. If you don't want to be on camera, if you're uncomfortable with it, my feelings won't be hurt. It's okay. But what if there was a happy medium? What if someone wants to be on camera but not really wanting to be on camera. And I'm here to tell you that I think I found the solution to this, which is using xR in your courses. Now xR is short for extended reality. And this is like an umbrella term for referring to real and virtual combined environments. Now I have been working on a new xR course lately for MIT. And the professor who I'm working with, he mentioned a concept known as V tubers. And I've sat there totally puzzled, and I was like, What is a V tuber. And I'm going to assume that you have probably never heard of this either. So please allow me to explain is that a V tuber is a Virtual Youtuber, their face isn't on the video. And instead, they use xR to portray some type of an animated character to be on cameras that are their actual faces. And there are several different ways to go about with doing this. And of course, sometimes it's going to be like a cutesy animal, which is what you might be thinking about or an anime character. Or you can even have something that is a life like a virtual representation of the person. And this is where things kind of get interesting. And I tried this. I created essentially a virtual version of myself and it took a picture of me and ended up giving me my glasses, my little spiky hair, the beard like it replicated this and then it captured my motion My mannerisms. And I can actually see and this is what started to feel like I was almost in like a Marvel movie of some kind where I can actually see this new virtual character mimicking everything that I was doing, but being on camera. Now, the only difference was that it made me feel more comfortable with this. And essentially, I felt like I could relax a bit because it wasn't just staring at myself, which is always kind of awkward when you start watching yourself on video for the first time. It's like hearing your voice for the first time on a podcast or an interview. And you're like, do I really sound like that? And and I kind of feel like we get that from a video perspective of Wait, do I really look like that? Am I really doing that? Am I really and you know, it's like, yes, you are, this is exactly what is actually happening. So thinking from a student perspective, I think that this is going to allow for students to feel more comfortable, and want to participate in the course with having their camera turned on, but not feeling like Big brother is watching their every movement. Now there are a number of ways of doing this. And a quick Google search is going to show you a ton of different options. And I mean a ton, you can use steam, Ready Player me face rig, v roid Studio, and there's plenty more. They all have their own pros and cons. They talk about different operating systems, there's obviously different costs, there's even different cost models, subscription versus a year long costs versus whatever. But you can figure out the best option for you for your organization, and of course for your students. But I could honestly see a day where I'm teaching a course, I'm hosting a webinar, and I'm going to look down at the audience view. And there's going to be half of real people looking at me, and then half of virtual people looking at me, I really can see this happening. So I would absolutely recommend to do this. And I'm going to link a YouTube video as well that I found that was kind of like a short and sweet guide to V tubers and how they do this really interesting, very informative. I tried out some of the things that the and of course, I can't remember the person's name off the top of my head. So I feel really bad about that. But I started to try out some of the trials that the person mentioned, just really absolutely fascinating, would really recommend to watch that video after you're done listening to this podcast episode. Now, if that's a little bit too far out there for you, which I feel like some of you might have, you're like, That's awesome, but we're not there yet. Okay, got it. I also have a plan B to suggest to you as well. And another fantastic resource that falls into this category for me is gather town, I was first introduced to gather town when I went to a virtual conference last year for MIT. And to start, I had to make an avatar. And then I had to move around a virtual world to find the room with the keynote speaker. And after searching a bit, I found where he was. And then I had to go and pick a seat essentially in this auditorium type of a room. And as soon as I did that, a link popped up that allowed me to go on a video call. And after I was done, I was then able to leave the conference room, and then to go and explore all the different other areas of the conference. So I'm walking past the poster sessions, I'm walking past my course my walking past, I mean more like a, it's more like a combining zoom and supermario, if you will, it's kind of like what this feels like. So my little character is moving all around. And the thing that I thought was this so interesting is that in the real world is that obviously as you move closer towards a group of people, but what ends up happening is that their voices get louder when you start to hear them more. In this same type of feature is actually embedded within gathered town, you can see a group of people talking and as you were starting to walk closer, this all works of proximity is how this basically works is that as you start to walk closer towards the other little avatars and characters, all of a sudden the voices get louder. And then you're going to eventually see a video box on the top of your screen. And people's faces start to appear. And they slowly fade in depending upon how much closer you get to the group. And then all of a sudden, you're basically in a zoom call with people. And it was so interesting. My colleagues and I when we were on this conference, we just thought it was just so cool and so funny. And we had some people who why I'm saying it was funny is that some people chose avatar characters that looked like them. Other people didn't care it is stuck with whatever the system gave them. So some person with a hamburger, one person was a snowman, you know, is it's kind of funny. But at the same time, it was sophisticated, where if I wanted to go and talk with one of my colleagues, which is something actually did happen is that while we were in this virtual world for a conference, something did occur that we needed to talk about immediately to try to solve a problem. And instead of leaving gathered town, we just walked over to a little couch area. And we found a way to have our own private breakout room is basically what that was. And we were able to solve the problem. And then we went back. So just like in the real world, it's actually how it worked. It was a really easy platform to use, it made me feel like I was kind of in the future in a little bit. But it's something that you can actually use right now, once again, that's called gather town, it was really fun, it was cool, and also helped with everything that we wanted to go about with doing of trying to have some form of a norm of a virtual conference within 2020. And now, of course, 2021. So definitely check that one out, you're going to absolutely love it. My next tip is a standard for additional resources. So folks, good news, we're not going back to the wave of things, we're our new normal is evolving, and students are going to expect us to pull out all the stops. And while it's going to be challenging, my think we're really up for it. And I know that from talking with all of you is that you want to make the learning experience better for all students. And what I'm predicting is how this is going to occur is that the additional resources section within your courses, this is really going to be amplified. And where this hunch is coming from is in my own courses, I've had to step up my game and really make the additional resources come alive. And this could include podcasts that maybe I have made, or I have found podcast episodes that really speak to the content and align with a module by module basis with the different types of topics. Maybe it was a blog, or YouTube channel or something else that really just gave more of a sense of trying to help out. And learners, they've always appreciated these different types of platforms, I have never had somebody say How dare you incorporate a blog that gave a different perspective of the topic or, you know, I can't believe you put in a podcast episode to let me hear a different take on something you know, like that's never occurred, because of course, they're optional. They're additional, and it's just there to help support the learning. And I was at dinner the other day with one of my cousins, and she is a senior going back to a type of a traditional college. And what she was telling me was how upset all of her friends were and the other students on campus because the institution, they're refusing to keep any of the online options available. So to them, they are 100%, all in going back to what they used to do in person courses. And I think they're going to face a really harsh reality that students want options. They want the best of both worlds. And the thing is, is that we can give it to them, we absolutely can. So think about everything that all of the universities went through for remote learning what instructors went through what students went through what instructional designers went through, it wasn't a wasted effort, it was just a learning process. So let's take some of those main takeaways and those key lessons and let's apply them towards some of the future designs. For instance, let's use the topic of recorded lecture material. While the recorded sessions may or may not be the best quality is what we can do with these to transform them into a better resource. Imagine taking a transcript from a recorded lecture where the audio wasn't so fantastic. So you're just gonna grab the transcripts. And you can then turn this into a handout for students to download. What if multiple recorded lectures could become a series of blog posts or a new ebook? what's to stop you from stripping the audio and editing it with new video animations to make it more alive and to become like enjoyable shorts on YouTube, students can have access to any of these pieces of content ahead of time to come more prepared for class or they can view them when the class is done and then reinforce the content. This doesn't need to be a battle of in person versus online, but rather we have an opportunity to enhance both. That's all I'm really trying to say. There are so many possibilities of what you can do with existing material and transform them into the way that future learners can enjoy the key To not just repurpose the material into a different format, but to go the extra mile to make the content enjoyable, interactive and deepen the learning experience. So what will the additional resources section look like in the future? Well, I am assuming blogs, podcasts, YouTube channels and games, different things of that nature. What about even taking it one step further? And in the additional resources section? What if you gave an opportunity for students to earn a certificate from another platform as well? Think about all of his certificates that people have been sharing on LinkedIn. I know, you know, when I'm talking about because I feel like everyone is currently going through a training and trying to sharpen their skills. What is this stop you if you are making a course saying it, and you aligned the content to have students and give them the ability and the option to go and try to get a certificate through Google. At the same time? Wouldn't it be incredible that by the time they finish their course, they could then go and also say that they were Google certified as well. And to put that on their resume. It's like we should trying to be preparing people for the future, instead of letting them just go and sit through everything for the two to four years. And you know, try to be able to help them along the way and not just make them wait until trying to apply for a job. I want people to be prepared. I want folks to be ready for the workforce, and to really know what they could be expecting. And trying to add in
Luke Hobson 31:40
these other options for certificates within an optional state, by the way for an additional resource. I bet that could really, really make a difference. Now, last, but absolutely not least, is flexibility to complete coursework. This topic is quite a complicated one to do, but I'm here to tell you that it can be done. For many instructors. The goal is that you want your students to be able to choose their own learning path. How do you want your students to show what they've learned? Are you thinking of an essay, a slide deck, video proposal written proposal? Well, what about the option of letting folks decide for themselves, this has been a shared goal of instructional designers and other educators is essentially taking the concepts of UDL for Universal Design for Learning, and CBE competency based education, and trying to mash them together. As an instructor, I like to prepare my students for the real world for what they're going to be experiencing in the workplace. Most of my courses revolve around leadership, which means that there is a time and a place for demonstrating different leadership skills. Imagine being the director of a social media team. Under your watch, an intern mistakenly sent out a test email to all the paying customers for your product. How do you handle the situation, there are a few key stakeholders you need to address to obviously solve the problem. And the first are the paying customers, the people who just received this confusing test email, but they don't know what to do with. This second is your internal team and perhaps even your supervisor, to the customers, it makes sense to try to submit another email to defuse a situation. So your writing skills are something that obviously needs to be on points. At the same time, you're going to have to explain your next steps in a meeting to the internal team about what happened, and what you propose to solve the problem. And talking about how you're never going to let this happen again for moving forwards, which means that your public speaking skills are now going to be tested. I would rather let my students pick and choose how they would handle this situation. event to work with others who picked different options of handling the situation event to come together and have a better understanding of all perspectives. Now this actually this scenario, it did happen with HBO, Max, an intern accidentally submitted an email calling it integration test email number one to a significant portion of their paying customers, and HBO started to immediately trend on Twitter. Their team responded on Twitter and amazing fashion, saying we mistakenly sent out an empty test email to a portion of our HBO max mailing list this evening. We apologize for the inconvenience. And as the jokes pile in, yes, it was the intern. No, really. And we're helping them through it. And then they put a little heart emoji At the end. Now this one swift act received 162,000 likes, and a whole ton of retweets and more publicity, it was shared for their humility for their humor, but also for the leadership, and how they stepped up and handle the situation. For most situations, there are usually different options and how to solve a problem. And I would rather let my students decide which method they would choose, and then told me the reasoning behind it, and to work with others see how they would approach the problem, and then hear their reasoning behind why they're doing what they're doing. I understand that this isn't always true with every subject, but I the idea of letting an adult make a decision, and then justify their actions is a learning experience. I wish there was an easy way for me to describe for you how to do this, but every single platform is going to be different. So I can't just give you a blanket answer. But just know that there are ways out there of doing this. There are different ways of putting courses on different tracks for different kinds of students. There are ways of being able to do what I was talking about, of having essentially a massive, let's say, case study and at the end, by giving them three different options of the case study, and allowing them to pick which one they really wanted to be able to solve which one they're passionate about. So it is possible, it's going to take some digging, and some extra homework to figure out. But you can indeed actually make this happen. But folks, that is everything I wanted to share with you today about my futuristic thoughts where I think we're going and what we might see coming in a not so distant future, I really hope that you enjoyed everything with today's episode. If you did, please feel free to give this podcast a five star rating, wherever you are listening to podcasts. And then of course, to share this on social media. Always really appreciate and love seeing the comments that you have on the podcast episodes, and talking about your main takeaways and what you really enjoy the most. from listening to the episodes. Be sure to follow me once again on all the social media platforms, all my links are down below in the show description. And then of course, join our Facebook group, instructional design Institute community go over there was where I spend most of my time, besides working my full time job and my second full time job and everything else. But I love connecting with all of you the most. And really being able to talk more about instructional design ideas, and is where we're really going if you want to take any of my courses, my course on backwards design is still up and running, which you can find a Drlukehobsonhobson.com. And there's also a slew of a ton of other different courses that I have over within instructional design Institute as well. And once again, folks, because I heard from some of you recently, and you were actually surprised that I reached back out to you with your submissions in your assignments, being able to give you feedback. And that's the point. If you're taking one of my courses, I'm going to give you feedback. I want to connect with you and try to help you with developing your instructional design skills. Once again, FYI, yes, indeed, I do actually give you feedback. And yes, I actually do want to help you succeed. So I just thought that was kind of a funny tidbit. But that's all I have for you today, folks. Stay nerdy out there. Now Talk to you next time.