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My purpose is to help you along your instructional design journey. Whether you are looking to learn about designing meaningful learning experiences or landing an instructional design position, this site is for you. This site is dedicated to sharing about best instructional design tips, talking to amazing guests, and more.

EP-30: To Degree, or not to Degree, that is the Instructional Design Question

You've already heard from two experts on going back to school for another degree. The conclusion is that there is no right or wrong path to becoming an instructional designer. Whether you decide to do this journey on your own or go for a degree, what matters is how much you are willing to dedicate to your own growth. In this episode, I talk about different paths to take to help you with finding your own way into the field and how to figure out which instructional design degree is right for you. 

Mentioned Links:

Recommended Institutions:

To learn more about myself and show:

Want to take your higher education instructional design skills to the next level? Check out Instructional Design Institute.

Thinking of corporate instructional design? Check out IDOL Courses Academy

Thinking about making your own online courses / creating your own business? Check out Kajabi.

Recording a podcast or conducting interviews online? Check out SquadCast.

Transcript:

Luke Hobson  00:00

Courses should be designed with the end goals in mind. That's why I love an instructional design model called backwards design. This is when you start with the learning outcomes first, and then create the assessments, the activities and then finally, the content. This lets you map out the entire learning process to see how learning is taking place. And for a limited time offer folks my course on backwards design is now available inside of it our readings, videos, assessments, and downloadable templates and guides to help you design your own courses. And of course, I'll be there to give you feedback along the way. Sign up today with the link in the show description or head on over to Drlukehobson.com to learn more, and now, let's start the show.

Hey, folks, and welcome on into the nerdiest podcast you're going hear today. My name is Dr. Luke Hobson. I'm an instructional designer at MIT. I'm also a blogger youtuber and the creator of instructional design Institute. My purpose is to help you make the online learning experience incredible for not just your students, but also for you as well. And to specifically help you along your instructional design journey. I've been answering more and more questions about instructional design degrees. Are they worth it is a certificate enough? Which school should I apply to? And these are all great questions, but I didn't want you just to hear from my perspective, I would rather bring on experts who can talk about both perspectives. And then we can do a follow up together. And that's what this podcast episode is. This is the conclusion to both conversations with Tim Slade and Dr. Karl Kapp, and to pass along some extra words of wisdom to help you on your instructional design journey. If you have not yet listened to either of those episodes, head on over to DrLukehobson.com. Go into the podcast section. And both of those are there or you can head on over to YouTube, find the YouTube channel and watch them that way as well. So first things first, do you need an instructional design degree to be an instructional designer? The answer is no. You will talk to some instructional designers who completely fell into the field by accident. They had no idea this type of job existed, they applied on a whim because they loved training or it or graphic design or something that was somewhat similar. And then now this is their full time career. I've said this before. But the best instructional designer I have ever met, who was one of my mentors growing up in this field is that her background was in music theory. I mean, you wouldn't think that there would be a connection between music and instructional design. However, she was able to take her skill set with creating lesson plans, designing rubrics, working with administrators, and transforming these into transferable skills into the instructional design field. And now she leads a team of like 75 people, and it is madness to see how much she's grown over this last couple of years. And even taking myself as an example. my doctorate is in Educational Leadership. It's not in instructional design. But through my work as an academic advisor in higher education and being an instructor. And then using my graphic design background, finding a mentor and really just having somebody finally taking a chance on me, I finally made this transition. And for those of you who just need to hear this, once again, if this is really what you want to do, please don't give up. Because I was there as well. I was turned down several times from so many different people. And even people within my same organization who didn't believe in me, which was super awkward to walk by them in the hallway being like, Hey, thanks for not taking a chance on me. But picking this other person who, you know, I can see them being great too. But also after like the ninth time, that kind of gets old. So if you're stuck in this rut, don't give up. Keep on going kind of a little bit of a side note there. But I don't want you to quit if this is really what you want to do. And then hopefully, these next couple of things I'm going to say are going to provide a bit of support depending upon what you want to do. So to me with the entire concept of instructional design degrees come down to our how much effort Are you willing to put into your own education? And by education, I don't mean a degree. I mean, what are you honestly willing to do to better yourself and your skill set when it comes to instructional design? Because one item that we didn't cover on the last podcast episodes was timing. For years. No one knew what on earth instructional designers were doing. This career flew under the radar. And if you ask the average person what an instructional designer does, they couldn't say. So this is a hurdle you're going to have to counter now, there was almost a benefit to not having all eyes on this field in a sense, where there wasn't as much competition. And now that everyone is picked up on the instructional design field, you are going to have to work more than ever to stand out from the crowd. To me, there are two paths to take to doing this. The first is the non degree path. This is for someone I'm assuming already holds a bachelor's, or master's or a significant amount of life experience in a relevant field, you are going to want to make a solid plan that explicitly outlines your goals and provides you the opportunity to see evidence of your learning. And I don't just mean purchasing books, or reading blogs, or Hey, even listening to podcasts kind of meta piece of advice for you there. These are only one piece of the puzzle. It's not everything, I want you to take action, and not just listening or absorbing contents. But after you need to take action you need to learn by doing. Think of the concept of backwards design. This is the instructional design model I use at MIT and I've used it my entire career. And the basics of this model is that you start with the end goal in mind, and then work your way backwards towards how you're going to accomplish the goal. You start with creating the outcomes, and then determine some type of proof that learning is actually taking place, then followed by learning and practice activities that allow you to practice your skills, and then you think about the content that's going to supplement this new knowledge. For instance, let's say that you've done your research of looking at the latest job postings, and you keep seeing that employers are asking for you to be able to apply UDL principles to their courses. This is a recent trend. And I guarantee that if you're currently searching for job postings, you're going to see a mention of UDL, Universal Design for Learning if you don't know what that concept is, and what organizations are trying to do now is revisit their past material and trying to apply a universal framework to them to enhance the learning experience. I'm actually seeing a lot of this too, because of the whole remote learning process for both corporate and for higher ed. So this is around for everybody. So our outcome then was that after looking at the job posting and talking about UDL principles, our outcome is then going to be but you want to apply the UDL principles to an existing course. Your evidence for learning your proof that this is taking place is when you are confidently and eloquently able to speak to your ideas about UDL, and then be able to defend your reasoning. If somebody tried to poke holes in your ideas. Your practice activity would be to discuss with other instructional designers about how they have applied UDL to their courses. And to make changes to a course that either you taught if you're a teacher, or to a course that you took as a students, I guarantee you can go back and find a course that did not do things the way that we do things now, so there's always a way to revise them, and to make them better for all students. The content to wrap this all together would be to read Dr. Novak and Dr. Tucker's latest book on UDL called UDL and blended learning, thriving, inflexible landscapes, and then you can also watch videos from the caste YouTube channel about UDL. That is a way for you to see how learning is taking place and helping you to edge closer towards your goal with becoming an instructional designer. And you can do this with as many goals as you would like and whatever it takes to get the job done. And if you want to know more folks about this entire design model that I just mentioned, I just launched a new class on this actually. And the link to that one is in the show notes below. So check out that one today if you're interested in more in this instructional design model. Because this model is how I teach myself new skills. I actually taught myself about health and fitness. And I managed to lose 30 pounds of fat using this model, which is so bizarre. I can't believe I'm actually saying these words out loud, but it really did work. Anyway, you can teach yourself anything I know people have taught themselves new languages. They've taught themselves how to play instruments and all these other different ways using this type of model with the end goal in mind first, and then planning backwards. Now this is one major step when it comes to educating yourself. You have to make your plan you have to assess your own knowledge you have to budget Your own time and your mental sanity. With going down this type of a road of doing things on your own, you're going to obviously need to create a portfolio, a website, you're going to want to try to build a course on rise, build a course and a learning management system like canvas or Blackboard, depending upon if you are applying for a higher ed role, that's definitely going to come up as far as an interview question or something that they want to be able to see. And you can create goals, action items, practice activities, that are going to allow you to see your own growth, as you do all of these steps to also help you see this growth. By the way, I would highly encourage you to find a mentor or to hire a coach when it comes to design. having another set of eyes review a problem with you is just so helpful. And that's probably one of the most beneficial things about going back to school for a degree is that you have these professors who you can work with. So in a sense, you're trying to replicate that on your own without pursuing a degree, you're going to want to find a mentor or to hire a coach. And also, there was nothing wrong with hiring a coach. I know that when people think of the term coach, that maybe they think about, like, you know, life coaches or things of that nature, where you're like, Oh, that sounds kind of sketchy. And it feels like that's gonna be Yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about actually being able to hire somebody who is an expert in instructional design, they have a proven track record, and they're going to help you act. That's what I mean. And to even give you an example, I've even hired a coach before as well, too. When it came to designing instructional design Institute, I needed some help with just putting these final pieces together on the business side of things that simply I didn't know about. And I got really far with teaching myself as far as for going on YouTube. Practicing within the different platforms, I use a platform called kajabi. I tried to do everything possible to basically break it. And then finally being able to revise my own courses and have people go through it with a pilot program and I did all these different things. But I still needed some additional help to get me to cross the finish line. And if you think about it to every superstar you can think of has had a coach, Michael Jordan had a coach Kobe Bryant had a coach Tom Brady has a coach right now, and they're still working together. And nothing is wrong with being able to learn from an expert. But the key there once again, is to actually find an expert. That's why I wanted to have Tim Slade come on the show. And when I think about experts as far as for folks who have been able to go down this road and being able to talk to other instructional designers, and to help them out. I think of people like Tim Slade like Devlin Peck, Julie Dirksen, Kara North, Cathy Moore, all of these people, fantastic instructional designers who can guide you through this instructional design world. And also, I would highly recommend anyone who has been on the podcast before you know, I try to bring you the best expert advice from others with different perspectives, to then be able to share their words of wisdom. So of course, I trust all of them who have come on the show. So people like Dr. Robin Sargent, Holly Owens, Dr. Papaioannou Lugara, Heidi Kirby, Christy Kittle, Dr. Dawn DiPeri, All Siddiquii, you can connect with any of them either on LinkedIn or their websites, or if they have their own services, you can contact any of them to try to be able to learn more from them, and to see what they have to offer to. If you don't talk to any of these people, specifically who I just mentioned, I just beg you Please do your research, talk to other people that know them, try to find testimonies that actually seemed legitimate, and just be smart about the whole thing. Finding the right coach does come with costs, because you are paying for someone's time and guidance. It's not free. However, if somebody is asking you for an unfathomable amount of money, just something that is so out of this world ridiculous. Just Say No thank you, and walk away because something's wrong. If someone's asking you for just that much ungodly amount of money, so that in a long way, is what I want to be able to say to you as far as you're trying to navigate the waters without pursuing another degree. And I would highly encourage you to listen to Tim's episode that discusses more about adding pieces to your portfolio, how to get around resume filters and artificial intelligence that might be blocking you from actually being able to get your resume or your portfolio into the hiring managers hands. And I would also highly encourage you to listen to Dr. Nicole poppy on a Lou Gehrig's episode about what instructional design hiring managers are looking for really insightful, awesome pieces of information, one of the most downloaded episodes of the show for a great reason. So go in and download and listen to that one. So now let's talk about the second path. And this path is that you're telling yourself that you do want to go back to school for an instructional design degree. As someone who holds several degrees, I understand the pursuit of knowledge and the satisfaction of completing a monumental Feat. So then this leaves us with the question of how to go about with applying for the right instructional design degree program. In my opinion, there are several significant steps to take before even considering what university to apply to do not. And I repeat, do not mindlessly apply to any degree program thinking that it has to be great, you actually hold quite a bit of power when it comes to selecting your school. You see, every institution wants you to apply to their program, and they will spend 1000s of dollars on ads to try and recruit you. And once you click on a link for their institution, they are capturing your data. This is known as tracking pixels. So if you've ever clicked on one link before for a degree program, and then you go on Facebook, and now you're seeing targeted ads from that same degree program, that's why this tells their marketing department, your behavior, when it comes to what ads, you prefer to click on how long you stay on their advertisements, and more. This then allows them to market to you again. So once again, for Facebook, but also LinkedIn, Twitter, and even YouTube advertisements, they can decide how often to push a new ad campaign to you. And the point of this is not to make you think that universities are trying to invade your life, which I know that's kind of sounds scary, they're like they're capturing your data are targeting their advertisement for you. But it's more about this is a strategy to make you feel more comfortable with the university. And eventually enough reminders might convince you to apply to their program. Now, instead of advertising, dictating where you should go to school, because that's what they're trying to say is, hey, look at us, we're so great. you clicked on this link before, maybe you should keep on considering to go here. What I want to propose to you instead is how to take control, and how you can decide with real and honest details about where you want to go. So I propose to you three strategies. And these three strategies are communicating with current students and alumni, researching the curriculum and outcomes. And then finally connecting with professors, directors, and Dean's let's talk about the first one, we're just communicating with current students, and alumni. What better way to learn about the program than from the students currently experiencing it? students within the program will give you honest feedback about what they love about the learning experience, and perhaps what they would like to see change. No institution is perfect. And we have all had our fair share of times where we are excited to take a course because the way the course description was written, only to find out that the course really didn't live up to expectations. I can think of a few courses I've taken where the course description described the most incredible course, only to have the professor skip elements of the course, or not be passionate about all about the material. And they were monotone the whole time. And it was like because just a major letdown. So what you want to do is ask current students about their experiences, what they love about the courses, what they want to see changed. How are the professors? Do they feel what the program is going to equip them with the right real world skills, your conversations with them can also be quite revealing. For instance, if someone is close to graduating, but they express frustration, over not being ready for the real world, that is a major red flag that is your sign to avoid the program at all costs. Because this person just spent two to three years of their life with 1000s of dollars, and they're still not ready. And now they feel stuck and have to go find another option to figure out what to do. You should also absolutely connect with the alumni of the program. Where are they now? What have they accomplished? Would they recommend the same program to you? Speaking with alumni might be the most important step here. If you talk to an alum and they speak about the program with pride and appreciate how much it has led to led them to securing their dream job and then all signs point to Yes, you should apply here, if they're happy and satisfied and going on to doing great things, and as a great sign for you. And if the alum gives you the opposite advice, saying that all they learned about were learning theories, they didn't use any tools, they don't know how to create a portfolio, then run, run, run away. It's actually relatively easy to find these people online as well. LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, they're all going to become your go to sources. Facebook groups are specifically helpful when it comes to connecting with students and alumni. I've seen the postings hundreds of times where someone makes a post in an Instructional Design Group, saying, Hey, I'm currently applying for XYZ University, can someone share with me their experiences about the ID program, it's a quick and easy way to make new connections and really to find out the truth, there are also dedicated alumni groups that are typically on Facebook and linked in and you can find them too. Sometimes they're private, but other times they can try to guide you. The same tactics apply have postings in them, where you need to be respectful, ask for their advice, and most importantly, ask about their overall perspectives of the program. The next strategy is researching the curriculum and the outcomes. I alluded to this point already, but let me drive this home. There are some poorly designed instructional design degree programs out there. This is also incredibly ironic given that instructional designers created the courses that compose of the degrees but you know, I digress, you must thoroughly research what the program is going to cover. dig through all the pages on the curriculum, the course outcomes, the course descriptions, and more, do not assume that the institution is going to cover all of your needs. I made this fatal error years ago, when it came to pursuing a graphic design degree. I didn't realize what I got myself into until about my junior year, where I realized that the courses were missing extremely important topics for the real world. I started looking at job postings and realize what I was learning about really wasn't aligning to what I was doing in the courses. You know what to take multiple courses on flash, this guy, you know, my program died a few months later, I became obsolete, Flash. So you know, that's cool. The year I was graduating was also the year but the custom website builders began to take off, like Wix, Squarespace and all the other competitors. They all launched the year I graduated. So literally, the writing was on the wall. But I was not prepared for the real world, and that it was too late. You know what could have prevented this though, if I had thoroughly researched all the design courses. And if I had talked to alumni, and just ask them about what did they have to teach themselves once they graduated once they actually finish school, I ended up doing this too late. And a majority of my friends were in the same program that I was in faces same hurdle, and they didn't become graphic designers. They actually ended up just changing fields or going back to school or changing majors or something else. So please don't let this happen to you. Then you might be asking yourself, so Luca, what should I be looking for in a program, here are a couple of different topics. And I actually listed all these topics in a YouTube channel, by the way, but I'll link to in the show notes below as well. But here are a couple of different topics, online course design, learning sciences, instructional design models, learning theories, learning analytics, learning techniques, authoring tools, learning management, system administration, working with SMEs, managing projects, leading teams, conducting research, blended learning, evaluate a learning, building a portfolio, and then definitely look to see if they offer internships as well. And once again, that was a super long list, I don't expect you to try to find something that has literally every single topic, but that's just to give you an idea of what I would be looking for if I was going for an instructional design degree today. And as you just heard from a list above, there are a decent number of topics involving learning. Knowing how people learn is the most significant part of your job. From there, people skills are equally as important. And then in my opinion, comes the necessary technologies with tools, website builders, learning management, system knowledge, things of this nature. You're also going to need experience which you can gain from internships, designing a portfolio doing some type of a volunteer project for Lance work in a few different things of his nature. Unfortunately, I have heard my fair share of horror stories when it comes to instructional design students, and then they only know about learning theories. And then that's it. And while that's clearly an integral part of the instructional design role, I could make an argument that managing relationships is the most challenging part of my job. If you don't know how to influence, negotiate, or persuade stakeholders, or SMEs, or your director or other educators or anyone who has a key decision making seat at the table, your ideas are going to fall flat, you need the well balanced approach of each element in order to really be successful. So you really want to make sure that working with sneeze, project management, relationship management, all of these things are talked about within the program itself somewhere, even if it's not in an actual course itself. If it's a part of a course, and you get to experience that within a group setting and having the professor act as SME, then fantastic. Look for something along those lines. I've been speaking of professors, the final strategy is to connect with professors, with directors. And with Dean's, as I've mentioned before you as a potential student, hold the power to be able to decide where you want to go back to school. The people involved with the program and are responsible for enrollment should be thrilled that you want to chat more about the program, and they should be proud to tell you more about it. It's an opportunity to showcase what they've accomplished and how it can help you to learning from my past mistake with my bachelor's degree, I decided to do all of these steps. When I considered applying for a doctorate. One of my graduate professors mentioned that SNHU had a relatively new add program. And it sounded like it was exactly what I was looking for. But before I got ahead of myself, I researched who was responsible for the program. And I found their email on the school's website. I emailed the director at the time, her name is Dr. Peg Ford. And I told her about my ambitions and what I was looking to do with them a doctoral program, I sent over a few questions and then I anxiously awaited for her reply, I received an email the next day of an invitation to come and to shadow to course sessions, have a chat with her in person. And I will never forget this kind gesture that I experienced right from the start, I could tell how much she believed in the program, I could tell that she wanted me to talk to other students and to hear what they were going through. Because they were proud of their work. And they were proud of their program. I took her up on this offer. And I planned a trip to campus for a fun filled Saturday of doctoral courses, because that's when the courses where they were from eight to five on Saturdays, something like that. So I sat there, and I was observing them. And I could just tell how much passion the students and the professors had. It was unlike any other kind, of course that I have ever experienced before. Even after that day, I was convinced, but this was the program for me. And I'm not expecting everyone to do this, but anyone who is willing to go out of their way. And to give you a type of a phenomenal customer service story, like what I just shared with you, it means that you really should be paying attention to that program, you can find these faculty members and employees on the university's website or on LinkedIn. I found many of them actually on LinkedIn. And that's how a lot of people have actually found me asking about my experiences with the Add program. And they wanted to know more from me as well about what I thought about it. So complete the same practice like with reaching out to students and alumni. Ask them what makes their program amazing and stand out from the others. Ask about the work that the students have completed, and about their journeys. And finally, just want to give you one last piece of advice here. Bonus Tip. If you apply and are accepted into your ideal instructional design program, you need to go above and beyond. Your courses won't cover every topic. I listed a ton of topics a couple of minutes ago, it's impossible to cover every single topic, but also because you're always going to be learning You are a lifelong learner if you go down this path. When you have enough ambition and foresight to think about what other ways of learning you can pair with your education you'll truly develop as a designer. I clearly didn't do things correctly. When I went for my bachelor's, what's funny, though, is that I have a real life example of the what could have been, quote unquote, someone very close to me pursued the same degree that I did around the same time. And she realized that her courses weren't going to equip her with all the necessary skills for the job that she wanted. And she began to go out of her way to teach herself more. On top of what the program offered, she started taking courses on LinkedIn learning Code Academy, she started going to networking events, she started to read more books on the future of design, and started to heavily research more about UX and UI, when these terms really weren't known to the average person at the time. Instead of being afraid of change, she went all in. And now she leads a team of UX designers, that was one of the hardest working people that I've ever met. And that person is my wife, by the way, so replicate what she did, because she's a rock star, I know you're a rock star, as well. Take whatever words of wisdom I just share with you over the last 30 something minutes and apply them to what you want to do. There is no right or wrong answer. Your path is completely up to you. And it's customizable as far as what you want to do. Start with a goal. Start with the outcome. Think about where you want to go, what is going to get you and the most effective way? Where are you currently at with your life? What can you handle? What can you financially handle as well? That is the honest to god great question that you really should be asking yourself to think about all of your different choices, and then network, then talk to people ask them more about what they did find other people like yourself who have made this same transition, if you are a teacher thinking about going back to school to becoming an instructional designer, find an instructional designer right now who used to be a teacher, and they were able to successfully transition from one field into another. If you're somebody who has been working in education for years, and you want to go into the corporate space, you can once again find somebody ask them about what they did. What's it like? What's the culture? What changes did you have to make with your lifestyle, in order to adapt from one to the other, the answers are out there, you just need to find them, you just need to work hard at them. And to not give up. Keep on pursuing your goal. Keep on doing what you need to do. And I promise you're going to get there in time, but it's going to take time. But as long as you stick with it. I know you can do what you want to do. And this is coming from a guy who failed out of high school and somehow found himself designing the learning experiences for students at MIT. So, you know, anything's possible. It really is. But Ladies and gentlemen, that is all I have for you today. I hope you enjoyed this solo episode with all of my thoughts about the different paths to take around everything with instructional design degrees, and just education in general. If you liked today's episode, be sure to share it with somebody who is currently thinking about trying to transition into the instructional design field. And maybe they have their own questions when it comes to Should I go for a degree or not? Once again, I would highly encourage you if you had not yet listen to the other episodes with Tim Slade and with Dr. Karl Kapp to go back into listen to both of those as well. Be sure to give this episode a five star rating on your podcast player of choice. Wherever you listen to podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, even YouTube, wherever you listen, I am everywhere nowadays. If you want to take my course on backwards design, but I talked about before you can find that over in the show notes or go to Drlukehobson.com. And of course you can go to that website just to learn more about myself, the show, or anything else, subscribe to my channel on YouTube. And be sure to catch my latest updates over there. But that Ladies and gentlemen, that is all I have for you today. Stay nerdy out there. And I'll talk to you next time.

EP-31: Sonia Tiwari - A Lesson on Learning Experience Design for Instructional Designers

EP-29: Dr. Karl Kapp - The Value and Benefits of an Instructional Design Degree